I only see mockery of accelerationists, which I broadly support. Its 10 times easier to reform an existing government that to destroy and build a good one from scratch.
To be fair, the only reason I sound like an accelerationist, is because the building is clearly on fire right now and I’m presuming its structural at this point. So yeah, while I wish it didn’t get to this point, it feels likely that we will have to rebuild things from the ground up.
Not when the existing government is built to concentrate and protect current property relations. Sure have parallel structures built to replace what exists but don’t reform, revolt.
Difficulty of reform aside, the pain and suffering that will come from societal collapse will be immense. The chance of successfully building a better system out of the crumbled remains is low. I don’t think it’s a great aspiration.
I agree that society is currently immensely flawed and should be changed, I just want minimal deaths on the way. If we can save lives, we should! Some deaths are necessary for change though.
Accelerationism is happening towards fascism. This would be a different story if socialism was on the rise with parallel structures in place to rescue us during the collapse
Literally this is not happening nor will happen. Not even close, it blows my mind other leftists think fascism provides opportunity. “Things are going to be great after this is all said and done!” As we’re rounded up and deported to El Salvador
What? Goverment has always existed to protect property rights of the ruling class that’s basic. Anything else it does that appear to do anything else are either really about their real goal or hard fought bargains meant to prevent rebellion that always are viewed as temporary,
Goverment has always existed to protect property rights of the ruling class
Edgy teenager take.
Modern western governments were created with the intent of replacing the old ruling classes with a democratically elected government. Pay attention during history class.
I study actual history and read actual history books that critically examine history through various lens from Marxist, de-colonial and other authors and that does not line up with the middle school propaganda you were feed sorry. Democracy at least at first for only property owning white men because the merchants and rich capitalists got rich and powerful enough that the aristocracy was an enemy of theirs and no longer useful to hold real power. These voting rights slowly expanded in order to placate rebellious populations or gain supporters when necessary first all white men, then women on and on while never forgetting and always co-opting “democracy” to maintain their power.
Personally im a Anarcho-Syndicalist so imo the system can be used. We can use economic sabotage, general strikes, and eventually take over the economy rather than burning it all down.
anarchy-syndicalist have always supported revolution and the complete overthrown of hierarchies its never been about slow incremental change within existing power structures.
Ok that was just poorly worded, what I meant to say is that theres no point in burning it all down without a plan. The seeds of revolution are planted before it begins.
This is a false dichotomy. You have to have a viable counter structure already built otherwise you are just making shit worse and hoping fascists don’t take over.
Letting shit just collapse on purpose also will just foster resentment in like 2/3rds of the population toward people who let it happen or encouraged it to happen. Which seems to be MLs and leftwing foreign policy activists, at least here on Lemmy. I’m not going to join hands with someone that played an active or passive role in potentially ruining my life and my loved one’s lives even if they’re ideologically very similar otherwise.
Spite becomes more powerful than a desire for positive change in large groups of angry people.
Ehh it’s about building a powerful international worker syndicate that can replace the state as painlessly as possible. So you’re technically right, but your comment is misleading in the context of the one you responded to.
What’s up with this centrist nonsense? It’s a good thing to want to change the existing power structures actually.
I only see mockery of accelerationists, which I broadly support. Its 10 times easier to reform an existing government that to destroy and build a good one from scratch.
To be fair, the only reason I sound like an accelerationist, is because the building is clearly on fire right now and I’m presuming its structural at this point. So yeah, while I wish it didn’t get to this point, it feels likely that we will have to rebuild things from the ground up.
life hack: begin building new social structures before the current ones collapse
Accelerationists HATE him for this one weird trick, click to read more
You sound like an accelerationist because you think things are unsalvageable? Go figure.
While I agree in theory, it assumes the existing system has rational or somewhat rational actors.
If your system is full of counter productive individuals, it might be easier to start fresh.
This works better with groups and companies, entire countries, not so much.
Not when the existing government is built to concentrate and protect current property relations. Sure have parallel structures built to replace what exists but don’t reform, revolt.
Difficulty of reform aside, the pain and suffering that will come from societal collapse will be immense. The chance of successfully building a better system out of the crumbled remains is low. I don’t think it’s a great aspiration.
some will die, that is a sacrifice.
Thank you for your wisdom, Lord Farquaad.
You first
Good people dying is bad, always! Even if it’s worth it in the end, we should try to find a way to save lives instead!
Good people are dying now though. When is the cost of drastic change worth the cost of the status quo?
the way to save lives is to change the society that harms billions not prop it up because you lack the imagination to think of something better.
I agree that society is currently immensely flawed and should be changed, I just want minimal deaths on the way. If we can save lives, we should! Some deaths are necessary for change though.
This isn’t happening
Accelerationism is happening towards fascism. This would be a different story if socialism was on the rise with parallel structures in place to rescue us during the collapse
Literally this is not happening nor will happen. Not even close, it blows my mind other leftists think fascism provides opportunity. “Things are going to be great after this is all said and done!” As we’re rounded up and deported to El Salvador
The way to fight fascism is by attacking the system that holds it up not recreating its parent.
It’s literally not built to do that. The government has been hijacked by private interests.
What? Goverment has always existed to protect property rights of the ruling class that’s basic. Anything else it does that appear to do anything else are either really about their real goal or hard fought bargains meant to prevent rebellion that always are viewed as temporary,
Edgy teenager take.
Modern western governments were created with the intent of replacing the old ruling classes with a democratically elected government. Pay attention during history class.
I study actual history and read actual history books that critically examine history through various lens from Marxist, de-colonial and other authors and that does not line up with the middle school propaganda you were feed sorry. Democracy at least at first for only property owning white men because the merchants and rich capitalists got rich and powerful enough that the aristocracy was an enemy of theirs and no longer useful to hold real power. These voting rights slowly expanded in order to placate rebellious populations or gain supporters when necessary first all white men, then women on and on while never forgetting and always co-opting “democracy” to maintain their power.
Lol
Yes actually your government approved school propaganda isn’t properly critical of the government sorry you are so surprised.
but where are the parallel structures
immediately attacked by the ruling elite when it starts to form
Such things are possible without the collapse of society.
Ok but we’ve only been successful at collapsing society so far, not in the reform department
Not if it means creating a hellscape and rolling the dice hoping it works out as you let a fascist win an election.
Personally im a Anarcho-Syndicalist so imo the system can be used. We can use economic sabotage, general strikes, and eventually take over the economy rather than burning it all down.
anarchy-syndicalist have always supported revolution and the complete overthrown of hierarchies its never been about slow incremental change within existing power structures.
Ok that was just poorly worded, what I meant to say is that theres no point in burning it all down without a plan. The seeds of revolution are planted before it begins.
This is a false dichotomy. You have to have a viable counter structure already built otherwise you are just making shit worse and hoping fascists don’t take over.
Letting shit just collapse on purpose also will just foster resentment in like 2/3rds of the population toward people who let it happen or encouraged it to happen. Which seems to be MLs and leftwing foreign policy activists, at least here on Lemmy. I’m not going to join hands with someone that played an active or passive role in potentially ruining my life and my loved one’s lives even if they’re ideologically very similar otherwise.
Spite becomes more powerful than a desire for positive change in large groups of angry people.
Ehh it’s about building a powerful international worker syndicate that can replace the state as painlessly as possible. So you’re technically right, but your comment is misleading in the context of the one you responded to.