• vvilld@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    5 days ago

    Anarchists (lib left) aren’t typically waiting for society to collapse. We typically focus on building the world we want to see now in order to make the collapsing society unnecessary to provide out material needs. You know, the whole mutual aide and community organizing bit.

        • CalipherJones@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          “Mutual aid is an organizational model where voluntary, collaborative exchanges of resources and services for common benefit take place amongst community members to overcome social, economic, and political barriers to meeting common needs.”

          Legal systems are far more effective at guiding human behavior than hoping for the voluntary good will of people’s hearts.

          • vvilld@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            4 days ago

            So your argument is that the only way to get people to live together is under the constant threat of violence from the state?

            • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              History seems to support that coercion is necessary to stop the most egregious abuses by bad actors. Tell us how we would prevent someone like Trump who lacks any concern for anyone else from cheating and robbing everyone without some sort of deterrent using force.

            • tweeks@feddit.nl
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              4 days ago

              I like the idea of anarchism, but I see it as more of an ideal world view than an actual stable reality.

              To support this, every group member of every group must almost unanimously support the concept. When resources or safety in an area become scarce, it’s easy for some groups to evolve back into another power structure to take care of their own people.

              It’s really difficult for me to imagine everybody on this planet getting along with this. But I’m certainly interested in other viewpoints.

              • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
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                4 days ago

                Honestly ALL systems are more of an ideal world than a stable reality. So singling out anarchism because it too is idealistic isn’t really much of an argument against it.

                • tweeks@feddit.nl
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                  4 days ago

                  Well, in many other systems you have an overarching ruling layer that sets laws and is able to enforce them from a top level.

                  That is precisely the reason why those systems can be relatively stable. As you just have a very large group of people following the same set of rules.

            • CalipherJones@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              I’d rather live under a state with a secure monopoly on violence than in a stateless chaos of violence. Anarchy isn’t a form of government. It’s simply the period before a group uses violence to establish itself as the government.

              Let me ask you, would you rather deal with a cop or a warlord?

              • vvilld@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 days ago

                You do not understand anarchism in the slightest. You are imagining some Hobbsian hellscape out of a disaster movie, which is completely counter to human nature.

                • CalipherJones@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  This is the definition I am basing my perspective on.

                  “the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.”

                  Also human nature has created plenty of hellscapes in the past. Don’t think it can’t happen again.