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Can’t be the party of wall st and the party of workers, at best you can pay lip service to one or the other, its no wonder which they would choose

Thanks for your input. I believe the Uncommitted movement was originally a movement to pressure Dems in the primaries, and I think that the result of that movement was that they couldn’t be moved left, at least not on the issue of Israel who is carrying out a genocide. So there were a lot of people who made the same political calculation as you did. This time, it didn’t seem to work. I am opposed to the idea that the mainstream of the dems even can be moved left, but I know a lot of people who hold out hope, and are showing up to try and make that happen.

There’s probably a lot that can be accomplished locally, to a certain extent. And while I remain skeptical I’m not going to like brow beat or sabotage someone who disagrees with me (unlike the democrats.) But to me, the dems represent the same class interests as the republicans, just maybe a different faction of that class. But I agree that we live in a real world with real existing social forces, and if we want to change things then we have to deal with the world as it is, not as we want it to be. The actual left doesn’t have the resources to deny reality like the republicans, and many democrats; we have to deal in hard and fast truths.

So I guess my strategy is to organize who I can on the far left, while others (like you maybe) organize on the center- left, and when things get bad enough that the mainstream of the democrats can no longer abide any positions to the left of Chuck Schumer, then you and I can come together to create that third party I hope for.

We call this the “dirty break” strategy, where we prepare for a split from the dems but in the mean time work within the existing framework to fight against the worst abuses of maga and the billionaire class, while trying to achieve progressive gains for workers

I was talking about James Carville

just showing up

If you convince people the only thing they can do to oppose fascism is vote every 4 years, a position that is historically and objectively false – fascists don’t care about democracy – then dont act shocked when their mobilization is underwhelming.

Democratic party leaders were instructing volunteers to remove anyone from their lists who mentioned the Palestinian Genocide. They were intentionally not mobilizing the exact people you want to just mobilize.

Also, have you ever tried to mobilize a group to do political action? It ain’t easy, even when you aren’t tying your own hands behind your back

I’m not trying to undersell the threat of fascism, what is coming is scary and many people are already being harmed by these disgusting policies. But the most important thing I hope to stress is that it doesn’t matter what you call it, it matters what you do to fight it.

You’d think I was trolling for how many down votes I got. It just goes to show that in the times we live, nothing is more controversial than the truth.

Also people get so upset when you tell them that politics is practical and not ideological. The bourgeois liberal mind can’t comprehend

That’s not the logic behind my statements, however logic has a beginning, middle and an end. It leads somewhere. Just letting you all know where a version of this logic leads, and it is the logic of the mainstream dems. I’m not able to articulate the whole case, but I can point to a case study.

You don’t have a monopoly on logic. In fact I guarantee you that I have studied more formal logic than most. The dems abandoned us years ago. I can’t say your logic is incorrect as you also haven’t described yours. You may be horrified to learn that we mostly agree, most likely.

But this goon represents exactly what is wrong with the dems: career political operators whose personal wealth is directly connected to their ability to run elections, and who have no incentive to win. In fact I could almost guarantee that your logic, or the logic of most regular working people, would be more sound than his. The incentives for dems are broken, the party is broken, time to move on and form a workers party. It’s time for a new logic that abandons these sickos who aren’t even that different from the republicans they pretend to oppose.

This guy was screaming and yelling about how Trump was a fascist, and if you didn’t vote democrat then that was equivalent to doing nothing in the face of fascism, or worse.

Not saying there aren’t elements of fash in trumps admin, there obviously are; or that abstaining to vote was the correct strategy, I don’t believe it was, though uncommitteds and 3rd party voters shouldn’t be shamed for following their conscience

Just want to point out where these arguments actually originate, and where exactly they have lead. Maybe there is more to politics than handwringing and rending of garments about impending fascism – maybe politics is something you do and not something you think or, god forbid, repeat uncritically.

That’s great for them, but what about my chuckles, what about my guffaws, what about my happiness??

Ever since it was taken off the air, I have been putting $30 in pennies up my ass every day, and then spending them. There are so many of my ass pennies in circulation, that surely the executives at comedy central and the creators of battlebots as well as anyone associated with this atrocity and their children, and their children’s children have, by now, handled my ass pennies

Yeah I know they have a theatre in Chicago I think, which is awesome. But I don’t live there. That show was so funny

Cancelled Upright Citizens Brigade for Battle Bots, I won’t ever forgive them

Your own citation says there is no basis for it in Lenin, like what did I just quote?

As I said above, if you can produce this quote, I will send you $50. If you’re not comfortable with that for identity reasons I will send $50 to any charity you specify (that isn’t right wing but you wouldn’t do that) and post the evidence. It is actually worth at least that much to me since I’ve spent an insane amount of time trying to find this reference.

I’ve had hexbears and .mls tell me it came from an obscure periodical that isn’t translated into English, but when I used google translate to convert the entire article, paragraph by paragraph, I never found anything even glancingly close.

If you find a reference by Marx, Luxemburg, Gramsci, Bordiga, Levi, Pannekoek, Plekhanov, Zinoviev, Trotsky, Stalin, Dunayevskaya – basically any major left wing revolutionary theoretician of renown I will still honor the arrangement because it’s worth it to me. Please find the reference or leave me alone. I can’t state my case any better without writing a full length article and I’m tired of this back and forth, I’m sure you are too.

Seriously. The judge is worried about the political fallout of doing anything as drastic as like, his job. It could be a real political rallying point, if a judge gets retaliated against. But that might make it hard for the judge to maintain his current lifestyle, and so we just make more concessions to the group committed to destroying even the illusory veil of justice and freedom.

Absolutely feckless and cowardly

I know, the irony is I’m criticizing people for not bothering to learn history and theory, and then you call a few paragraphs that I wrote in like 5 minutes “a novel”. Please try and keep up, or actually contribute to the discussion, smart guy

This actually isn’t real difficult for someone with even a molecule of intellectual honesty.

You posted this link, which you apparently didn’t read: https://checkyourfact.com/2019/11/29/fact-check-karl-marx-capitalist-hang-sold-rope-quote/

The last line of the article says this:

The saying, Quote Investigator noted, is frequently attributed to Lenin and former Soviet Union leader Joseph Stalin, though there’s “no substantive evidence” it originated with them either.

The Quote investigator link says:

The earliest strong match located by QI appeared in 1955 within a periodical called “The Commonwealth: Official Journal of the Commonwealth Club of California”. The club is a non-profit public affairs organization. The quotation appeared as a filler item. Emphasis added to excerpts by QI:1

Lenin wrote, “When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract.” —Major George Racey Jordan

Jordan was a U.S. military officer who became a fierce anti-communist. Lenin had died in 1924; hence, the 1955 date was quite late. No documentary source was specified, and multiple researchers have been unable to find a match in Lenin’s writings.

Its breathtaking to be accused of having a superiority complex by someone who, when confronted with their own ignorance, invents a “working class zeitgeist” to gesture towards as if that means jack or shit.

Did you read this? The article says Marx and Lenin never said it, and that it was misattributed to them. In fact the last link in that article corroborates what I’m saying.

On that note, ask Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht about following the working class zeitgeist to occupy Vorwarts. As for feeling superior, being right is superior to being wrong and a little bit of a liar.

Please get a grip

Congrats on calling a few paragraphs qualifying as a novel, telling on yourself here homie

Which letter did Lenin say it? Produce the letter and I’ll send you $50